The third annual lecture, in memory of Lord Ramsbotham, held on 25 November 2025.
This third of a planned annual lecture series in memory of Lord Ramsbotham, former Chief Inspector of Prisons, was held in the Palace of Westminster.
The audience heard from Lord Timpson, who reflected on Lord Ramsbotham’s legacy, the central role of people in driving change, and the importance of leadership, trust, and rehabilitation across prisons and probation services.
Lord Timpson
Good evening. As we gather to reflect on the legacy of Lord Ramsbotham, this occasion allows us not only to celebrate the achievements but also to consider the ongoing challenges and opportunities within our justice system. Let us remember that it is people who are at the heart of transformation in the justice system.
I also think that, if you believe in people, you also believe that people can change, and you believe that second chances are something that everyone deserves. And I think that is what David was very, very clear on in his work in the justice sector. I’ve actually met a couple of people who knew him in the military, who said he was exactly the same, not surprisingly, there.
So, if you believe that people are the main driver of what’s going to positively change the justice system, what are we doing about it? Because going back to my previous point, it’s not just about laws and processes and meetings – and lots of meetings at Petty France, in our case. It’s actually about what is happening out there in Bangor, in Newcastle, in Taunton. That, to me, is what this organisation is about, and that’s why I try and spend at least one day a week – ideally I’d like to do more, but I get one day a week out and about, meeting staff in prisons.
And when I go to the prisons and probation units, what I don’t like is being told where I have to go. I like to be able to walk on the wings, sit in offices, speak to staff, sit in cells, speak to prisoners and find out what's going on. Because they are the people who know what you need to do to turn this round.
Yes, we have fantastic policy experts and they know how to get this bit right, but the best ideas always come from the people who are doing a job on the ground.
The problem we’ve got is that the legacy we inherited is not good – we all know that. And I don’t think there was anybody more vocal about Transforming Rehabilitation than David Ramsbotham when it was going through the Lords.
And I believe that it is a problem with our prisons, but it’s more of a problem with our probation. And probation is that one service that always seems to come second, even though there are 90,000 people in our prisons, but a quarter of a million people on probation. It always seems to be the least interesting part of the organisation, but for me it is of equal importance, and I don’t believe that someone working in probation is any less important than someone working in the Prison Service. I think the language needs to change around that.
But austerity, lack of investment, a lack of vision, and a lack of being able to take some – basically using the evidence to take decisions that some people would perceive as risky but actually would lead to fewer victims, has meant that we’ve got to this position where, when I started this job, literally every day, all the conversations were about: “How could we find 20 more cells?” You can't run any organisation like that.
And I’d like to think, because of when we did SDS40, things have started – we've got more capacity in the system. Whilst probation has probably inherited that heat, it has meant that things are starting to happen. And what I see is green shoots – some may say that they’re small green shoots, but I can see a change in the sense of direction.
So, when it comes to prisons, this is again a pure people business. Yes, there are walls, yes, there are bricks and mortar and bars – but this is about people. It’s about leadership, and I don’t think enough has been invested in our leaders, for far too long, and I believe our leaders need to be allowed to lead. Our leaders are exceptional in our prisons.
I also want them to lead for a long time. I don’t think it’s a good thing for the staff who work at any organisation to have a big succession and churn of leaders. So one of the things I’ve focused on is having governors and senior leaders stay in their roles for longer.
I also want to understand and get to the bottom of how we can trust people more. How can we trust prison officers basically to make decisions on their own professional judgement and experience rather than having to refer to what the computer says? And we need to make sure that, as technology becomes a more relevant part of all of our jobs, that we don’t rely on it to make the decisions that are often based on our gut instincts and professional experience, based on dealing with often very, very complex people.
I also want to have a way to get AA and NA meetings in every prison, every week, because what that will do is, prisoners will help prisoners, and volunteers will be able to come in and support people through their journey to get to a point where they can have a successful parole hearing or just have a really good prison experience. But again, it’s about people, it’s not about process.
And finally, just on people. When you speak to staff in every women’s prison, every member of staff will tell me – and they’re right – that a lot of those women should not be there. And one of the things that I’m trying to do in my job is to get the voice of those staff on the front line heard because this is not just about news headlines, it is about people’s lives, and in the case of many, many women in prison, they’ve got really young children who have often gone into the care system.
Now, when it comes to probation – and I’ve touched on how all roads really lead back to probation – most people who are in prison today have been through the hands of probation, and it hasn’t really worked. So I see this as my biggest challenge. Yes, we’ve got 45% increase in funding. Yes, we’ve got technology that is coming down the line – some of it has started, and it’s starting to work. But we need to make sure that probation staff and the teams that work with them are trusted and have the time to make judgements based on people who are all different from each other.
And every time I sit in a probation office, you see the offenders come through the door – they’re all different. A lot have problems with addiction, a lot have problems with mental health, a lot are in the care system, a number of veterans, and so on and so on – relationship breakdown and so on. But there is not one solution that fits everybody, and that’s why we need the professional judgement of our people.
And I also think, with probation staff especially, when it comes to making changes in any service, you need to win the hearts and minds of those people first. If you don’t win the hearts and minds of our probation staff, it won’t work. It’s not about sending a memo out, it’s about understanding where they’re coming from and basically doing what they know needs to be done. So one of the things I’m very interested in and I’ll be spending a lot of time on, is the sort of internal comms of how we talk ab
I was going to give you one example of where I think we can get teams of experts working really well together, and that’s with intensive supervision courts. So, we’ve got a small number of them at the moment, but essentially, it’s where offenders get diverted away from prison, as long as they work with the support teams around them. It could be addiction, it could be mental health, it could be various other factors. But if they don’t work with the teams, then it could be that they go to prison.
And where it works well is when we have a group of like-minded professionals who are working together, in some ways like an orchestra, you know, playing beautifully together, to make sure that the support that these people get is world class. And again, you can put it in a memo, but really, you’ve got to let the experts get on with it and work together.
But we’ve got the Sentencing Bill, which we have our first day of Committee tomorrow. And to me, this is the go-kart to get us into Formula One. Without this Bill, we cannot do the things we need to do to transform the system.
One of the things I’m really interested in is the progression model. So, this is the Texas-inspired progression model that we’ve got in the Bill. And if you look, ours is not exactly the same, but it’s similar. Crime has come down in Texas by 30%, and they shut 16 prisons because they’ve diverted people away from prison. Prisoners have been incentivised to behave well to earn an earlier parole review.<
And there are a number of other things around it, but I think David would have really liked that, because it also reminds me of how the military works, which is, you know, if you play the game, then you’re going to get on, and if you don’t, the military can make life a bit difficult for you, too.
So, if you think about the future, we’re going to get the Bill done. We’ve got big investment in staff, we’ve got big investment in buildings. So, the investment is coming but it won’t work if we don’t have the hearts and minds of prison officers who are walking the wings, staff who are in the Offender Management Units and probation staff who are out there, often in their cars, often meeting very complex people.
And we mustn’t forget that, whilst we’re doing this Bill, my fellow Peers here, when we get this Bill going through Parliament, we need to think about what every clause means for the people who are trying to change people’s lives for the better.
So, when I finish this job – hopefully I’m going to do it quite a bit longer – but when I finish this job, if I could have a reputation like David had, I would be over the moon. Someone who’s effective, who gets things done, is kind, and never forgets that the most important people are those ones on the front line. Thank you very much.
