Should we send fewer people to prison?

He said that prisons were grossly overcrowded. Even with the current prison population, he pointed out, we would need to build the equivalent of ten medium-sized prisons if we wanted to ensure decent, uncrowded conditions for prisoners and staff.

To meet current projections of prison population growth would require the building of the equivalent of a further 20 medium-sized prisons over the next five years.

After a thirty-year experiment to sharply increase the prison population, he said, it was time to get off the merry go round of ever more prison building.

He also reflected on his long involvement in prisons policy and debate:

I've worked in this area for over 25 years and I have never seen such a toxic, pointless and ridiculous set of policies and debates around prisons as we currently have

Also taking part in the discussion were Chief Executive of the Howard League, Andrea Coomber; retired police officer, Peter Bleksley, and the solicitor, Ayesha Nayyar.